Jake Whitaker's Journey: Awakening Faith and Overcoming Doubt Through Family and Divine Love

At the tender age of seven, Jake Whitaker experienced a spiritual awakening that set the course for his life's journey. On this episode of the 421 Show, Jake takes us through the deeply personal story of his childhood in a loving Christian family, and the moment he first felt God's presence while playing with action figures. He shares how this early encounter led to a poignant prayer with his mother, igniting a lifelong relationship with faith despite facing continuous challenges and doubts. Join us as Jake offers insight into the unwavering role of family and the power of divine love in nurturing a young soul.

Amidst struggles with doubt and the truthfulness of scripture, I recount my own quest to find evidence that bolstered my faith during my formative years. Growing up in a religious environment, I grappled with skepticism until discovering apologetics and thought-provoking accounts from figures like Josh McDowell. These revelations helped me reconcile the harmony between science, history, and spirituality, leading to a deeper connection with God. This episode promises listeners a transformative journey that underscores the value of seeking knowledge and understanding to fortify one’s faith.

We dive into the complexities of contemporary issues such as sin, redemption, and personal struggles, particularly focusing on the battle against negative thoughts and mental health challenges. The conversation takes an honest look at the impact of pornography and societal shifts, highlighting the importance of open discussions and compassionate support. We wrap up by sharing personal testimonies of transformation, reflecting on the influential role of community and faith in overcoming adversity. Through stories of humility, gratitude, and growth, we aim to inspire spiritual healing and unity on this shared path with God.

Chapters

• 0:00 Personal Testimony of Faith and Doubt
• 13:33 Finding Evidence for Faith
• 18:15 Discovering the Divine Connection
• 22:37 Understanding Sin and Redemption
• 32:18 Discussing Pornography and Personal Struggles
• 42:22 Sharing Testimonies of God's Grace
• 51:26 Supporting the 421 Show

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:00

Welcome. This is your host, eddiej. You're listening to the 421 Show. Welcome, this is your host, eddie. You're listening to 421 Show. Check out our website hor421showbuzzsproutcom for all your latest content and information. Reminder every week. Tune in to Bible Talk once a week with Sister Deb. It is now airing on WUIC 88.1 Christian Radio Station Every Sunday at 5 pm. You can also find Bible Talk much, much more on the 421 show on Google, spotify, apple and all your major platforms. If you'd like to contact Sister Deb, you can email her at osbraindebrak at gmailcom. If you'd like to support the show, you can support it through PayPal slash. H-o-r 421 show dot buzzsprout dot com. All shows are recorded live, no post editing recorded at the 421 studio. For contact information for all your studio needs, you can email me at H-O-R-421ministries at gmailcom. Phone number is 239-849-1502. Well, we have a special guest with us today, jake Whitaker. He's going to be sharing his testimony and it is a pleasure to have you on here, brother.

Speaker 2: 1:34

It's a pleasure to be here and I appreciate you inviting me. It means a lot.

Speaker 1: 1:38

Oh, it means a lot to me. I'm just glad to have people here with me. I'm not here by myself alone. No, I do. I do thank God for you, and I'm excited to hear what you got to share with us today. And well, however, you want to start it off from the beginning. However you want to do it, it's your show, gould.

Speaker 2: 1:56

Okay, well, first of all, I'm Jake Whitaker and the Lord, Honestly, I think today, just wants me to come on here and share. I grew up in church and so I want to give you the perspective of somebody who grew up in church and knew the Lord from a young age and knew him deeply and so made all of his mistakes as a Christian Right. You know, and I really feel like that's what he wants me to emphasize is just that part of my testimony today and just kind of maybe some insights in how the enemy's attacked over the years on me, because I know that he tries those same things over and over. He's got nothing new. So I just I want to start by saying you know, I grew up going to church. My mom, my grandparents, made sure of that. That I was at church all the time on Sundays and Wednesdays, and you know, we did church Sunday mornings, sunday nights and Wednesday nights.

Speaker 1: 2:52

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 2:53

And we were a small church. It was Riverside Baptist Church and I grew up there and went there for 22 years and the Lord saved me when I was seven years old. But it wasn't at church, it was actually in my bedroom that I felt him first draw me. I was playing with action figures. I don't have 100% lock on what that was, but there's a 95% chance that it was a red Power Ranger, because that was my go-to and my favorite.

Speaker 2: 3:21

Yeah go-to and my favorite yeah and uh that was I was just at the time that was my mama's bedroom, that house was my grandparents house and this was my grandma's mom. It was her room, which later would become mine because my mom and I moved into that house. But, um, I remember playing and lots of the family was in the dining room playing cards and they were just probably Shanghai or something like that, and I remember just kind of stopping everything I was doing because I felt the Lord just really press upon me, not like an audible voice or anything, but really press on me, that I was lost. And it really hit home for me because I grew up hearing that language and I knew what that meant. So to me that wasn't foreign.

Speaker 2: 4:09

To me, I knew, oh gosh, I'm that guy. For me, at seven I knew that meant my destination was hell if I didn't do something to change that. It's amazing and it hit real hard, so much so that I stopped playing and I went into the dining room and I whispered in my mom's ear because I didn't want anybody else to hear it. I whispered and I was like I need to get saved.

Speaker 1: 4:35

Oh man.

Speaker 2: 4:36

And she was like you know, stops playing. And she's like, okay, okay, and so she takes me into the living room and what was really really cool- looking back at it is we prayed at a love seat, so it's cool to me that I encountered the greatest love.

Speaker 1: 4:52

At a love seat.

Speaker 2: 4:53

To man at a love seat.

Speaker 1: 4:55

That's amazing.

Speaker 2: 4:57

And so I can remember the pattern on it and everything. But I was praying, like repeating, after my mother, because at the time, you know, praying myself wasn't really something I was good at, you know, I was saving, so I was repeating after her. But as I was repeating after her and I was praying, like you know, these things like Lord come into my heart and Lord forgive me and Lord save me, things like that it was cool. Looking back on it, I realized that he was actually allowing me to see like just little pictures of things that went with what was being said, and I think, honestly, for me, that was the first time the Lord, like, actually showed me what I would call a vision, and it was just to I don't know, maybe just to put me at ease because he knows I'm a visual learner and just kind of to realize that he was speaking back to me like hey, I'm hearing you, and it was really cool to kind of get that take on it. But I remember asking him to save me, and I remember thinking, man, I'm so glad I did that.

Speaker 2: 5:58

And then what was crazy to me, though, is, after this point, throughout the rest of my existence, really, but really from that moment forward, from being seven until I was an eighth grader. I don't think I realized until my eighth grade year that it was really a journey that began that day, and so that day began my relationship with Jesus. And so that day, like, began my relationship with jesus and I guess in my mind at that time, being seven, I thought, okay, this is just a like, right here in this moment, like this is, you know it. And then all throughout those years I feel like the lord was like no, this is an everyday help helping you understand how to walk with me, kind of thing.

Speaker 1: 6:46

Man, I love that.

Speaker 2: 6:48

And it was really, really cool to me how the Lord began to speak in my life, because at that time, right from seven, even until my middle school years, I feel like it was mostly through the preaching that I heard.

Speaker 2: 7:07

And um Travis, it was on the show, like he mentioned, uh, his sister being married to, like her ex-husband being a pastor. That's my cousin, okay, like we. So that's where, like, I grew up hearing him preach a lot, and so, um, I feel like I just no-transcript and I loved learning about the Bible, but I didn't really feel able to learn about it on my own yet, and so I feel like that's when things started to really come alive for me is in middle school, but that was not until some darkness happened, and for me that darkness was really and truthfully, just feeling like the Lord was done with me. And that hit me at my middle school years of like, and I'm going to be honest with you, I remember it starting in like third grade, shortly after I got saved, because anytime I missed up, anytime that I would think things I didn't need to, anytime I would say things I didn't need to, anytime that I would like.

Speaker 2: 8:24

You know, growing up in church, you know what the wrong things are because, like you learn that, and so I felt like I knew what sin was, but I really had no idea what grace was yet, and so every time I would do something stupid or something sinful, something selfish, I would always think, well, he's done with me full of something selfish.

Speaker 2: 8:45

I would always think, well, he's done with me. And so, like this would be the overarching theme that would sit in my brain all the time is like well, he's done with me. Or like, okay, now I have to, now I have to get saved again. Or now I have to, now I have to, uh, ask for forgiveness, like seven times in a row before he'll hear me. Like little things like that that creep in, and especially like the number of times I feel like that was a big one for me that the devil really tried to play on. He was like, well, I mean, if you only said it once, I mean he's probably not going to hear you. You've got to say it more than that.

Speaker 1: 9:13

Even today, me being in my upper 40s, I still deal with that Me too.

Speaker 2: 9:18

Me too. He still reuses that, and you'd think I would learn by now, especially since I'm testifying about it, but it happens all the time still.

Speaker 1: 9:28

It's amazing, though you know even at our age that we are now, we still deal with that, even at a younger age. Now see, I wasn't raised in church. You know. I told you know in the past. You know I didn't know nothing about God, but a few things. I knew one Bible story, and I didn't even know that in a whole.

Speaker 1: 9:50

Wow, I had a few people that would come and pick me up for church, but that was about it. It was just. It was my grandmother, wow. So I mean, I lived a sinful life at the age of seven, versus you lived a Christian life at the age of seven. That's wow. It's amazing, it is. But what's amazing to me is listening, even though through all of that, I still knew God's voice when he come to me.

Speaker 2: 10:14

That is cool and it's awesome how he does that.

Speaker 1: 10:17

When I turned 19,. God came to me, wow, and I knew his voice.

Speaker 2: 10:22

Ain't God good, he is, he is, he is.

Speaker 1: 10:25

He is. I didn't mean to interrupt you, but man.

Speaker 2: 10:27

That was a cool perspective on that too, just to realize that we do know when he speaks. Yes, Because I feel like we question that a lot. Yes, I know I do a lot I do all the time, all the time, all the time.

Speaker 1: 10:39

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 10:40

But I think, as far as that questioning I'm going to play off of that wording there that's what began to happen in my life. I began to think, okay, well, I've done all these things and I realize it's seven for me being active in church, like what I was committing. A lot of people are like, oh, even listening to other people's testimonies now sometimes I am tempted to be like well, you don't have much of a testimony, but the Lord has to remind me. No, your testimony is particular to people that were raised in a similar situation. That's right, so that it reaches them. And so I feel like this is for those people. I feel like he started to make clear to me was the enemy, over and over again, kept showing me hey, the Lord doesn't love you, he's not really there for you. You've really been left alone.

Speaker 2: 11:34

It was because of things I would think, and so my biggest issue, like sin issues at that time, being younger, were things that I would think about or things, things that I would let into my mind and that would torment me, and that's a you know, that's a lot of room for the devil to play, because he loves to play in your thoughts, because that's unseen and so it's not as easy to pick up on. Like what's going on, like other people can't really call out around you, oh, you're thinking that right now, that's, that's the. Don't listen to that. Like they can't see that on a screen. So the Lord, that's really where we learn. I think to walk with him is on that level is to say, okay, lord, these are the things I'm getting, what's you, what's not.

Speaker 2: 12:16

But at seven, going into like middle school, I just remember thinking like man, I've done so much and I knew Bible, but sometimes that didn't help, it actually hurt in that case and here's what I mean by that is, you know, just like the enemy came to Jesus right when he's fasting and comes and says, before he starts his ministry and uses scripture, the devil did that in my life. So he's like okay, you know Bible, so let me tweak it a little bit and let you hear the remix that I want you to know, right, and so he would come in with things like well, you know, I mean Jesus says that like if you, if you hate your neighbor, like it's the same as murdering him, so all your thoughts are awful and evil, so like you're still doomed and going to hell, like you're still, and he would just paint that picture of me being doomed and hopeless over and over. And it got me to the point where I thought, okay, well then what's the point in this? And, honestly, too, got to the point I was like, okay, if I can't be perfect which you know we can't but I was like, if I can't be perfect, then what's the point? And so then it got to the point where I was like, okay, well, instead of blaming me for all of it, I'm just going to blame the Lord.

Speaker 2: 13:26

I'm like why do you keep letting me do the wrong thing? You know? And I tried to act like I didn't play that card, but I did. And then also, I just got to the point to where I was like you know what? I don't even know if this is real, because I don't even know if there's any proof that the Bible's real. I don't know if all this that I've been learning is actually true. You know, and a lot of people, I think, are ashamed to admit that when they grow up in church, that they go through times like that. But really I think the Lord is challenging us.

Speaker 2: 13:52

I can see that, yeah, yes, and I think the Lord is challenging us in that time to actually say like dig in, Because if you dig in you're going to find that I'm real, Because if you dig in you're going to find that I'm real. And that's what I began to do. My mom and my cousin Crystal, like they led the youth at our church there, and so they would take us to like extreme conferences and we would go to those in Pigeon Forge and Gatlinburg, and that's where I began to get in knowledge of people that did apologetics, and one particular for me was like Josh McDowell, and you know he was, to be honest, I can't remember if it was atheist or agnostic, but I think I want to say agnostic and then turn to Christ while trying to disprove the faith. And so I began reading all these things he had out there, all these different books and different things about his testimony, and it just really came alive for me that, oh my gosh, there really is evidence for all this stuff I've been taught all my life.

Speaker 1: 14:50

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 14:51

And this is more real than I ever imagined. Well, see growing up.

Speaker 1: 14:55

I always knew that there was a deity. There had to be a creator for the creation. It's too complex, it's too much, so I never, growing up, I never could call myself atheist or asgnostic. Yeah, I was just. I guess you could say a liberal. No, uh, I'm sorry for all my liberal people out there, but I had no idea. But no, I really did, you know, I just. But I thought it was just for me, I thought I was to make my own path, my own road. I made the best of what I had with me today, right, right, yeah.

Speaker 2: 15:32

I think, um, I think for me at that time, especially in middle school, like the enemy would have. Really the enemy had his way. That's where I would have discontinued anything to do with church thing to do with church. But going to those conferences, hearing about how other people had that struggle of not knowing if he was, if this was really real or not, like it helped me dig in and actually learn and I'm a big knowledge guy, like I love to like soak in things you could definitely tell talking to you.

Speaker 2: 16:08

I appreciate that, but I love, love to learn things, and so for me, getting to learn about how the bible was actually real and how you could actually prove it, like through different things, like just things with timeline and history, things with like manuscripts, things with archaeological You're a science guy. Like I loved it.

Speaker 1: 16:26

Yeah, it's awesome.

Speaker 2: 16:28

I loved that, that, and so it came alive for me. Yeah, in a way that it hadn't, because I, I guess, in a way on accident, I had kind of separated my academics from, like, my faith and not realizing that those merged together beautifully because, I mean, the lord designed he's. He's the reason we have science, he's the reason we have history, he's the reason, yeah, he's the reason, all that exists yeah, and the reason we have a brain to actually comprehend it all.

Speaker 2: 16:53

So it was cool to me to just see like, okay, other people have had this struggle, other people have lived through it and they're on the other side of this and we're closer to God, and so I think that inspired me, and so I actually started reading the Bible for myself in middle school. But that, you know, being honest, I think that's the time that I really started reading it for myself, because before that, you know, it's like mom would read me something from the Bible, things like that. But it was never me alone in my room with the Lord and shutting out the world and saying, okay, I want to hear from you.

Speaker 1: 17:26

That's to me. When you said that, that was me. The Lord telling you it's time for you to grow, jake. Yes, the Lord telling you it's time for you to grow, Jake. Yes, it's time just to get a little bit older. Yes, absolutely. Yeah.

Speaker 2: 17:36

That's a great one, Like. Honestly, if I could put in voice what the Lord was trying to say, that would have been it.

Speaker 1: 17:41

It's time to grow up. Jake, we're going to do this, yeah.

Speaker 2: 17:44

It's time to become a man, yeah.

Speaker 1: 17:51

Like, yeah, and then, you know, become a man. We grow up, we eat adult food. We, you know, and do all of that. You know, even when we leave our you know, our parents, we're to cleave to our wife, you know. That's the whole thing about being you know where we are today yeah yeah, and god's good.

Speaker 2: 18:11

yeah, he is, yeah, he is love this. So one thing that was really cool to me was after I started reading the Bible myself.

Speaker 2: 18:22

Oh my gosh, the way it would relate to what I was going through at the time and the way that and you know, we have ups and downs with that, like even me now, like at 31, there's times where I'll be reading the Bible and I might not be getting as much from it as I did the week before you know, but the word of God is living and powerful, and that is not just scripture, that is fact, Like I mean, I've watched it come alive in my different situations and really connect with me, you know, and kind of draw me to where the Holy Spirit's gotten to say like hey, here's the answer to what you've been praying about the past week, or here's what I've really been trying to show you.

Speaker 2: 19:03

So this was also, by the way, a time of great revelation in my life because, reading the Bible myself, one thing that really stood out to me was the fact that Jesus openly claims to be God and he says that to his followers. He's talking with Philip specifically in John 14 and says like if I've been in verses 9 and 10, I'm pretty sure it says like if I've been with you this whole time, after they say show us the Father.

Speaker 1: 19:28

You don't know who I am you don't know who I am.

Speaker 2: 19:30

Like literally been with you the whole time, Philip.

Speaker 1: 19:32

Hello, Like literally been with you the whole time.

Speaker 2: 19:35

Phillip, Hello, Like you know, yeah, so that, as I was learning about that, I will also say that got me into some arguments with people.

Speaker 1: 19:42

Oh, I could, just I could hear it now.

Speaker 2: 19:45

They did not agree with that. So, like when I was learning that and I was wanting to talk about it with friends, they were like no, he's not God. And I'm like yeah, he is.

Speaker 2: 19:50

Like he said it himself, like it's here, but it was one of those things for me that the whole time I was young, I separated Jesus and God, and so when I like had to come to that realization, the God that I thought hated me and got mad at me all the time for my mistakes and, like, despised me and wanted me in hell. And then this Jesus that I was learning about in middle school and loving everything about what he was saying and how he was interacting with people and how gentle he was, and then realizing that that was the same man, that was the same God, there was no separation, and that really blew the hinges off of all my theology at that point.

Speaker 1: 20:34

That's one reason why people in the church don't get their healings, their deliverances because we're trying to separate ourselves from Christ. Because when we become saved and we've got Christ in us, we become one. Yes, that was one of my biggest prayers, you know is that when they look upon me, they see christ, and when they see christ, they see the father. Yes, and and I loved how you just said that I do if the church can just grasp that and they can just grab a hold of that and instead of saying it's not a one-man show, you know, and that's what this whole show's about, you know, the let, let, let everybody know that you know you're not the only one going through it.

Speaker 2: 21:18

Right, right, amazing, and uh, it still blows my mind because I feel like even now, there are times where I feel like he all the time he has to get me back to saying no-transcript and I feel like he gives that fresh, like as you study and as you learn, as you pray, that he gives that fresh like hey, I am who I am.

Speaker 1: 21:53

Like hey.

Speaker 2: 21:53

I am who I am and you just keep discovering me in different ways because that's going to draw you closer to me, and then I'm going to open up things for you to walk into so that you can represent me in places. Right, and I just really feel like people need to know too, like something that I was I would use the the word plagued with was different thoughts entering my mind that were not mine.

Speaker 2: 22:19

You know, the enemy loves to interject thoughts and make you think they're yours and people don't realize that, and I really feel like that. That needs to be shared for anybody that deals with any sin, whether that be like just lust, pornography, homosexuality, whatever those sins are Like. If you thoughts that come into your mind are not always yours.

Speaker 1: 22:40

I deal with anxiety, you know depression, and that comes with a lot of you know dark thoughts. Yes, yes, you know, and the devil does. I hate to say, but it is true, he does plug you with. You know those type of thoughts.

Speaker 2: 22:57

All the time and wants you to think it's yours, because if you're the originator of it, then it's who you are Right, and so if he can convince you, oh, this came from you, then that's just you at your core, right. And that's not the case, though.

Speaker 2: 23:13

He's a liar, and so I think it's really important to know that, because during that time, especially with feeling like the Lord wanted nothing to do with me, before I realized that he actually cared for me and before I really keep in mind, got like started my relationship with Jesus at seven years old but like didn't really know who he was in middle school.

Speaker 2: 23:31

You know, and so you learn and you grow in your faith. Like you said, time to grow up and I just really feel like maybe we don't realize sometimes just how much of a mental game Satan plays 24-7. And now one thing I love is having my wife to help call that out, because she will be like what are you doing? Like you're thinking too much. You're in your head.

Speaker 1: 23:51

It's the devil's playbook. Yes, he has a physical playbook laid out in front of us and we can see every little move that he's making. It's just, are we?

Speaker 2: 24:06

willing to accept it, though. That's right, yeah, right and um, I think, something that also just needs to be known. There is me sitting here sharing this. I want everybody hearing this to know that I still don't perfectly set aside that time like I need to to study. I still don't perfectly set aside that time that I need to to pray my prayers. I'm 31. I started a relationship with Jesus. Thank God, he saved me young, because I'm going to. I started a relationship with Jesus Like thank God he saved me young.

Speaker 2: 24:34

Yeah, Because I'm going to be honest with you and I think this is something that all of you listening need to hear. If you got saved young, he probably saved you young so that you couldn't get out there and get wild Because you might not have just done your, you might have went to hell, like I mean, you might not have encountered Jesus in the way you needed to. Later, you might not have encountered Jesus in the way you needed to later.

Speaker 1: 24:54

That might be why he grew you up in church. That's absolutely true, right there.

Speaker 2: 24:56

Yeah, like for me, I know that if he hadn't got me young, like it's until and what I would have gotten into, and so I think it was very important that he saved me young. And I see that now because I see all the different ways that if the enemy would have had his way, I would have been doing things very much differently. I know I would have had his way.

Speaker 1: 25:14

I would have been doing things very much differently.

Speaker 2: 25:15

No, I would have. Oh my gosh, it would not have been good, would not have been good Right At all. And I think you know something too that I will say is and this may seem random, but I just feel like it needs to be in here is obedience is key in following Jesus, because, like I don't do that well all the time, nobody does but one time in particular, just kind of going in the order here of where we left off, like in high school, the Lord really helped me to step into my faith more because of that journey through middle school and in high school I really felt like he gave me a platform that I didn't deserve and I was able to speak a lot. As a first priority leader, I was able to speak to a bunch of kids every morning. Anytime it was my turn to do devos, and so he took me as somebody who, who literally thought the Lord hated and despised him in the just the few years before that and then turn that around to where I could speak from a place. But I want to, I want to hit home with.

Speaker 2: 26:24

This is like I tried to be a Pharisee, like part of my testimony, unfortunately, is because of growing up in church, I was still tempted to think that I was better than other people and that was so not true and that's still not true. And if you grew up in church or you knew him young, that does not give you the right or the opportunity to act like you're better than somebody. And the Lord had to humble me in many ways to get me there. And I think part of that humbling was staying quiet during those middle school years so that I didn't hear from him the way I wanted to, so that it made me realize, oh okay, I'm not all that in a bag of chips, like I can't really hear from God every time I want to control this thing. And another thing there is. I felt like that um, there is a particular place in Scripture and I want to say it's in Luke, but I cannot remember the exact verse there where Jesus is sitting there and a lady comes and she breaks that alabaster box of perfume.

Speaker 1: 27:29

I love that Scripture.

Speaker 2: 27:31

I love it. And I love when Jesus is talking and he says, like you know, this woman has been forgiven much. And he kind of gives an analogy and he says, okay, who's going to love me more, the one that's forgiven little or the one who's forgiven much? And I was reading that one day and I don't remember if I was in high school or college, but I was reading that one day and the Lord really smacked me in the face with that truth. He really spoke to me and said everybody's been forgiven much. Just few people realize it.

Speaker 2: 28:04

And for me especially, growing up in church, and the enemy tries to come in and be like oh well, you've not done anything that bad. But Jesus does say you know, your thoughts are just the same as going and doing it. Like your thoughts and your actions go hand in hand. It's just as bad. Nobody, everybody, deserves hell. Jesus is our only way out, and like that that's the reality.

Speaker 2: 28:25

And so when he hit me with that, I felt like that helped really kind of break some of that in me, that thought that I was better than other people, because he really kind of just came alongside and said, hey, no, you're not. You know, like I mean, you're just as guilty, like you deserve hell, just like the next person. Nobody deserves not to go, except Jesus, and that's why he's the way, the truth, the life, you know, that's why he was the sacrifice. And I just really felt like that was necessary too, because I feel like, growing up in church, you are tempted by the devil to be like, well, I mean, you know what I did was bad, but it wasn't as bad as what you. You know, like you're tempted to think things like that. That's not the case.

Speaker 1: 29:04

See, that's one of those lies the devil likes to throw at you, yes. You know I got saved at 19. I got saved at 19. You know I lived a pretty you know wildlife after then. But you know, even now, being 48 years old, I still have those thoughts. You know I had to humble myself. You know, step back, because you know I say hey, you know, devil, you're lying. You know, I know exactly what you're saying on that.

Speaker 2: 29:34

I thought of this, so I have to say it because it's kind of funny.

Speaker 1: 29:37

Yeah, go ahead.

Speaker 2: 29:38

You know the saying. That's like what do you call a doctor that made A's in college or a doctor that made C's in college? And the answer is a doctor. I feel like it's the same for Christians. It's like what do you call somebody who lived their life in church or somebody who lived their life in sin?

Speaker 1: 29:51

as long as they got saved.

Speaker 1: 29:52

It's a christian, that's right sin is sin yeah it's sin, and but uh, but yeah I think the lord had shown me it's all about how deep into that sin that you want to go. Yeah, you know. Uh, you know, with you, know you, you take somebody that's in, you know, into child pornography, somebody's in the pornography. They didn't start off in child pornography, they started off in, you know, lusting after the eye. You know, looking at somebody lusting, committing adultery. You know that sin. All it did was just get deeper. It still always goes down to the root of it. It was adultery. You know, it was the lust of the eye. That's what drawed Adam and Eve to do what they did.

Speaker 2: 30:36

Yeah, yeah, well, and you know, honestly, just being open and real.

Speaker 1: 30:40

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 30:40

Part of why I felt like the Lord hated me is I was addicted to that. I was addicted to pornography in middle school and that's where, like a lot of that really came from me, thinking that the Lord was like done with me because I've done that. I mean how could he forgive me? But he does, he forgives and he helps you to like what's the word? To realize that you can't overcome anything by yourself because, like, trying to stop doing something like that doesn't work. It's like you literally have to have the Lord come in and deliver you from it and say like and let him change your mindset and your want and your desire.

Speaker 2: 31:19

you know, because James talks about how we're led away by our own desires and so clearly that was something I wanted simply. But Jesus had to come in and like kind of reset that, and in high school he allowed me to kind of walk free from that and then in college I got wrapped back up in it again because, then I was off on my own and so then it was like kind of more easily to access, and so that was something that plagued me for a lot of years.

Speaker 2: 31:47

I didn't actually stop being addicted to that until when I joined COVID Church of God after college, because when I came out of college I came back to Harlan and then the Lord convicted me to go there, and so when I came back and went there, I want to say that it was September, maybe September of 2015, because I graduated May of 2015.

Speaker 1: 32:18

Did you find it hard to love somebody with the pornography and all the adultery? Because, see, when I was younger, pornography it wasn't as acceptable as it is today. But you found a magazine or you found a video and it warped my vision on what actually true love was. And I didn't realize what true love was until my later years in life. It plagued me or it destroyed what the true meaning of love was in my life.

Speaker 2: 32:49

Yes, I do think that it had that effect on me, because I didn't. I feel like to me it really objectified women and just kind of made them, yeah, thinking past you know, and, and just I don't know the right way to say it, Maybe, like it made it hard for me to see the true value of someone.

Speaker 1: 33:21

Yes, you know what.

Speaker 2: 33:21

I'm saying Like made it hard for me to see why people really exist in a relationship together, because it was tainted.

Speaker 1: 33:31

I still cause. I grew up in a pretty toxic home. You know I was telling my last guest. You know and I don't want to repeat everything, but it just kind of fallen this way you know I grew up in a really toxic home. You know I ran from drug dealers. You know we always had a bug out bag, you know, ready to go. You know it was sex, drugs and rock and roll. That's literally what my house was growing up. And pornography was in the mix of that, you know, and I just didn't know what love was it really? And still today it's hard for me to grasp.

Speaker 1: 34:12

It plays a big role in my relationships. When it comes to relationships with a male figure, you know what is? You know, are they genuine in their love with me? You know, when it comes to a relationship with a woman, are you genuine? I just it's so perverted I don't understand it sometimes and still I have trouble grasping. You know, I keep secluded or I live like a hermit. I hate to say it, but I keep myself away from people because I'm afraid, and you know then anxiety and depression and all that, I'm just a big hot mess.

Speaker 2: 34:51

Me too, yeah, me too.

Speaker 1: 34:52

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 34:54

Me too.

Speaker 1: 34:55

Yeah, it's crazy how the world's turned upside down and we should look at it as pornography and the sexual exploitation of everything is just so easy to grasp. Now why ain't the church looking at it and saying it's, it's, you know, it's the enemy's playbook, it's right there and it is.

Speaker 2: 35:17

And, like you said, I definitely see a shift, like in the past, like just from when I was in middle school till now as an adult, like yeah shift and more people kind of just being accepting of that. You, you watch certain movies and certain shows and you can tell that, like the culture is just like. Oh well, I mean, this is just kind of part of how everybody lives and it doesn't have to be.

Speaker 2: 35:41

No it doesn't have to be and regardless of if you grew up in it or if you didn't grow up in it, like when Jesus comes in, like you can allow him to guide your life and not let that be how it's set up now in your home. But that is I definitely agree with that that there's been a shift to where people just seem to act more accepting of that.

Speaker 1: 35:59

And I still think, though it's hard for people to talk about it.

Speaker 2: 36:02

It is.

Speaker 1: 36:03

You know, how do you talk to somebody you know about because that's going deep into somebody's heart? Yeah, you know, because you're like like you know and then kind of find out, everybody's doing it. Yeah, that is the truth, that if the chips want to be laid out on the table and that's the truth, be told everybody's doing it. Yes, if it's actually looking at it on a on a screen or in a movie, or sitting on the park bench and watching people go by, you're doing it, yeah and that's still in your heart like it's yeah, regardless of which way, I like how you added the park bench watching people go by, because like that's definitely the same thing.

Speaker 2: 36:41

Yeah, people watching.

Speaker 1: 36:42

Yeah, same thing, same thing, no difference you just changed the name and you called you know, voyeurism, people watching. It is what it is you want. It's the truth. I mean it is yeah, well, and.

Speaker 2: 36:55

I think, like you said, people are ashamed to admit that they've struggled with stuff like that because people view them as dirty. You know what I mean. Even admitting that now, people might be like, oh, I don't want to hear that guy preach he used to be addicted to porn. I mean, that's a chance you take with it, just being open and honest. Oh, it's true, but it's one of those things too, that if you're honest about it, I think that's what helps. A lot of people say oh, you don't have to stay addicted to it?

Speaker 1: 37:23

I think too. I think it is. Is we don't have to be so judgmental towards people, true? If we wouldn't so more judgmental to people, I think people would be more accepted to go ahead and say hey. Be more accepted to go ahead and say hey, this is where I've got a problem out. Can you help me?

Speaker 2: 37:36

right when I think there's a difference too it with saying you know there's something wrong with that, you need to get help and you're saying it in a way that makes them feel like they're the scum of the earth, like the way we say things yes, yes, I agree with you, yeah to be honest, that something's wrong, but like, don't do it in a way that's going to make people think they never need to be in your presence again.

Speaker 1: 37:59

Yeah because, I worked in corrections. I was a correction officer or deputy jailer for five years. I've seen people that have been innocent of charges and I have seen people that's not been innocent of charges, no matter what they've done, but I've seen it been innocent of charges, right, you know, no matter what they've done, but I've seen it.

Speaker 1: 38:18

You know and, and, and I and I I'm drawn to people like that because you know I've got problems with myself and I want to be able to relate to you and you relate to me. We help each other to get through this. Yeah, you know, because you know, because when we we cross over that, we take that last breath. That's it true. You know it's heaven or hell.

Speaker 2: 38:37

I think here lately I feel like the Lord has really been convicting me to step out more and do the work of an evangelist.

Speaker 1: 38:44

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 38:45

Because, being honest, I think a lot of times for me, as far as ministry goes, I lean towards trying to teach people who are saved Like I like discipleship, but then I feel like the Lord is like okay, that's part of it, you know, but part of it is you need to keep preaching out to lost people, because that's how you grow the kingdom, and so I feel like he's really been impressing that on me lately to do a better job of that, because I honestly, I feel like as far as if we got graded on areas of our life as a Christian, like that would probably be a category that I failed at a lot and I like just speaking to others about Christ and I mean that's what we're here for.

Speaker 1: 39:25

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 39:25

So it's sad to admit, but like it's something that I definitely need to grow in, need to do a better job of.

Speaker 1: 39:31

Yeah, I definitely I've got. I've got areas in my life and I'll be the first one to tell you. I definitely I've got areas in my life. I know I've failed and I'll be the first one to tell you. I hate fasting. Me too, I do. And every time the Lord says you need to fast, you want to get deeper, you know, and that's what I hear, you know, the Lord tells me do you get deeper? I fast.

Speaker 1: 39:52

I hate fasting, I'll go preach to the worst sinner there ever possibly was on the praise of this earth, and I'll fight a bear for you, god. I hate fasting. I'll tell you the reason why, though I know I laugh about it, but the reason why is food is an escape for me.

Speaker 2: 40:12

Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1: 40:15

I'm not super obese, but I do have an ed pro. I loved food I really do and growing up when I would get angry I would turn to food. You know it's either go fight that person, get mad at them. You know win or lose. Get in a fight, I fight. I'd rather eat something what's in the cabinet. I'd mix something up and I'd turn to food.

Speaker 2: 40:40

You know I'll be honest with you. I relate to that because, for me, I think that I turn to it anytime I'm stressed.

Speaker 1: 40:46

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 40:47

And so I think also too and I'll just tie these two things together I know something that the Lord showed me when I was struggling with pornography was anytime that I had been super stressed, the downward spiral for me that would lead to me like partaking in that would be I would get stressed out, I would overeat, I would feel miserable and I would not like the way I looked and then it would be like okay, well, the only person who's gonna like you is fictional yeah and like in that spiral, like a lot of times.

Speaker 2: 41:21

For me would be what led me to that later than that yeah, it's it.

Speaker 1: 41:27

I know exactly what you're saying. You know I hate it, but still today I'll find myself getting mad at something or someone and and I'll find myself stuffing my face just to kind of. Because I'll be honest with you, I wasn't a good kid growing up. I was a bully. I was a very brutish kid. You beat me up, so what? But I'm going to beat you up and you're going to get hurt. You know it was just who I was and I didn't care if he was fat skinny. I didn't care if he was, uh, fat skinny, I didn't care what color, creed or race he was. I I bullied you, you know. And then you know it's just and I hate, I hated myself for it, because there's things in my past I wish I can go back and correct, but I can't right.

Speaker 1: 42:11

It haunts me, yeah, still today, you know, at my age, it still haunts me, and, and, and. Still today, you know, at my age, it still haunts me and I'll think about that stupid stuff that I did Even back then. I'll turn back to food.

Speaker 2: 42:23

Yeah, it's crazy. Yeah, no, I agree, I think more so. I think that that has a big play in our lives more than we realize.

Speaker 1: 42:31

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 42:32

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 42:33

Yeah, wow, I'm glad we relate on that, because I really don't find a lot of people that would admit that the food depression is. A lot of people don't want to relate to that. Why, I don't understand it, but you don't find people that I think I just don't understand it. I can sit here and try it, guess you know, and try to label it and why people do the things that they do, and I can probably write a book on it, but the truth is I've never found anybody till now that actually admits you know, and and that is I like that, I really do yeah, me too.

Speaker 2: 43:09

Look, honestly, I think that's the first time that I've ever really sat down and been like oh yeah, this is, this is totally a thing you know? Would you know that this, this has?

Speaker 1: 43:17

helped me a lot. You know listening to you and you know listening to your we're to confess our faults. You know and share each other, not be judgmental, but we can help each other out yeah you know, these are life lessons. You know, and it's just part of, you know, lord saying james, you're going to grow up a little bit more today me too.

Speaker 2: 43:39

Yes, one thing I think is really cool too is, like you know, you said that you were a bully. There was times in my life where I was picked on. I think it's cool that we come from different sides of that, but we're sitting here as brothers in christ amen you know, that's awesome. That's incredible. Only god that.

Speaker 1: 43:56

I don't either and I felt the witness of. You know the spirit of that. I really did, because right after you said that you know you got I'm not saying that I am, but you know I try to look at people in the Bible and relate to them. You know Paul being a brutish man, you know. And then you, you look at Steven. You know a humble but bold in Christ. But he was, you know, a humble character in Christ. You know he didn't go out like the men folk did. He didn't go out and do the evangelist part. He stayed home and took care of the you know the finances and made sure people got fed and but still then, he'd get behind the pulpit and preach with boldness, and that's how God shows to me and stuff like that.

Speaker 1: 44:43

That truly is amazing how our two different walks are like that, but we're together now serving Christ.

Speaker 2: 44:48

That's cool, isn't it? Ain't God amazing. That's cool how he unites people he does.

Speaker 1: 44:54

It is Like that's the common thread for believers, wherever you come from, is jesus and that's awesome yeah, I, I do, and you know, if anybody ever does out there listening, you do know me from my past. I'm sorry, I am so sorry for being a bull to you and it is the truth. You know, I was a bull to the teachers. I was a bull to the teachers. I was a bull to the students. I was just a bull to anybody. I didn't like anybody. I hated everybody. Compulsive eater. They hated everybody.

Speaker 2: 45:26

Uh, you know and I apologize too for anybody that's listening that knew me when I was going through times of acting like I was better than somebody else because that was gosh. I mean, that can make you feel so small.

Speaker 1: 45:39

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 45:39

The reality is like none of us. None of us are better than the other.

Speaker 1: 45:43

No, nope, god is good.

Speaker 2: 45:50

I don't know that I have anything else. I'm trying to search my heart here and see if there's anything else.

Speaker 1: 45:57

No, I tell you what I really have enjoyed the testimony, brother. I really have, and I hope and pray that this helps somebody. I know it will, because God's word don't go void. Yeah, that's true, and we are a living embodiment of God's word. So what we speak is God's word. We're speaking truth. We're not speaking lies to you. We're telling you that you know you can't overcome this. You know there is a silver lining to everything that you're going through and I thank God for it. Brother, you've helped me out so much today just by your testimony alone.

Speaker 2: 46:31

I love being able to do this because it's awesome to me, like it's just cool, it's encouraging and it's helped me to have enjoyed this. I feel because it's awesome to me, it's just cool, it's encouraging and it's helped me too. I've enjoyed this. I feel like it's helped me step forward and doing a better job of starting to be that evangelist just to tell people.

Speaker 1: 46:45

It's part of being an evangelist and we are actually living the word right now. The Bible says go out into all the world and preach the gospel, to evangelize. And part of evangelizing is telling people what you go through, is trying to relate and have a rapport with people you know, saying, hey, I know exactly what you're going through. You know, I just showed him, you know the stats of where. You know my show is being broadcasted out throughout all the world. So, brother, here's your start, here's your evangelistic start. On it all. Thank God, good it is.

Speaker 1: 47:20

I can't really say enough. I can't stop saying God's good enough. I can't. I find myself more and more every day God is good. I can't I get tongue twisted, tongue tied. God is so good to me, he is so blessed to me, he's opened so many doors for me. I've, you know, last few shows that I've done. I've had a couple of good brothers, you know. Chime in and tell me their testimony, a little bit about their lives and and come to find out. We're all coming from the same thread, yeah, and we're just alike. You know, just a different road. But problems are all the same. We all deal with it in a different way.

Speaker 2: 47:58

Yep, that's true.

Speaker 1: 47:59

That's it, ain't it.

Speaker 2: 48:00

I want to encourage you with something. What's that? My papa? He passed away in February of 2022. And before he died, there was a conversation we had that I thought was so powerful and he just said you know, and he, he died of cancer and he.

Speaker 2: 48:18

He said, you know, he started trying to tell everybody about Jesus when he realized that he had less time. Yeah, and he already was doing that, but it, like, I mean he, he got emboldened to where he did it with everybody. And so one thing he said to me is basically, if you know, he held it like a telephone in his hand. He basically said like if man would use this. And he said, and you all know how to do more than I do, he said, because you got like cell phones and different things like that Cause he's holding up just like a house phone. Yeah, and he was like if somebody will use what the Lord's given them to just tell people about it.

Speaker 2: 48:56

Like it makes a big difference and that really hit me. And I just think it's really cool, Like he would have loved to have seen that this was going on right here in Harlan, you know those people speaking about their testimony of how Jesus has changed their life and how he saved them and how he's, how he's moving and working in their life even now.

Speaker 1: 49:13

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 49:13

And I just I think he would have really liked to have seen that. It's really cool to just think about.

Speaker 1: 49:20

My mom did the same thing, for she passed with cancer. Everybody come in that room. You know Jesus. Let me tell you about Jesus. You know she. She had a full blown ministry. You know she had all kinds of stuff going on. It just seemed like what you said, that it was like they were saying it more and more, and more and more, and I find it nowadays, now, that I want to say it more and more and more yeah I can't say it enough and and, and I see time drawing, we see destruction just everywhere.

Speaker 1: 49:52

I mean we can go on here for another two, three hours tearing, tearing all the miserable stuff that's went on here just in the last week or two.

Speaker 2: 49:59

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 49:59

And it's still coming. The gate is still open and it's still flooding in, but there's hope if you just hang on. Yeah, god is good. You've been a wonderful testimony.

Speaker 2: 50:11

Thank you, buddy, it's been awesome to be here.

Speaker 1: 50:14

Yeah, and I guess we'll call it wraps on there, if you want to. If you want to pray before I call it quits, go ahead.

Speaker 2: 50:21

All right, lord, thank you for the opportunity to just share a little bit, a very little bit, about what you've done in my life, because there's so much more I could testify about you, lord, because you are always, just always working and moving and doing.

Speaker 2: 50:36

I mean, there's times where you've spared my life, there's times where you've done so many different things and I just want to thank you for all those and I thank you for the opportunity to do this now. But I pray that you would be with everybody that's listening, just to know that you love them and to know that you're there for them and to know that, like when those mind battles come across in their life because they do every day that you would, just, you'd, be their safe place and their place of rest and peace in that, and that they can come to you to know the truth, they can read your word and if they don't have it, lord, I pray you get it to them and I just pray that you would be with all those here in this, that they would just honor you, jesus, and that they would give you the glory for it, because you're the one who does this, you're the one who brings people together and transforms lives, and we just thank you for all that you do. Lord, we love you and praise you In.

Speaker 2: 51:22

Jesus' name amen.

Speaker 1: 51:23

Yes, praise the Lord, Glory to God. This is your host, JD, and you're listening to the 421 Show and if you guys like to support the show, you can support it through PayPal. That's H-O-R-421. Go to PayPal or you can go to our website at H-O-R-421showbuzzsproutcom. All shows are recorded live no post-editing Recorded at the 421 Studio. Contact information for all your studio needs you can email me at H-O-R-421ministries at gmailcom or you can phone at 239-849-1502. And I thank you all for listening and God bless you all.